Wang Wen, Executive Dean of Chongyang Institute, Renmin University says China must NOT prioritize security and in the process stifle development or international exchanges.
My Chinese is truly horrible. Especially now that I haven’t spoke any mandarin for the past 8 years. After 25+ years I still feel like a kid learning!
So we are in agreement? If all foreign internet services are cut off in China, the average westerner won’t engage because to engage they need to cut themselves off completely from their lives, families and support networks.
I’m glad there’s people who speak better Chinese than me but unfortunately they are in the minority and as you can from my experience, if you stop using it you forget it.
It’s like if all Chinese internet services become banned in the Western world, no one would dare to visit because most people can’t speak English and they would be cut off from their family and friends.
Until we can either encourage more people to learn new languages or develop excellent AI translation software we’ll need to ensure that people have access to the digital networks they need to live their lives.
In the 1990’s and early 2000’s China was much more open. Maybe it was important to block the US internet giants then in order to build a localized tech industry, but now that the industry is strong there is no need for these rules. All they do now is cut off the outside world and prevent people from learning more about China.
China has much less interest to be inclusive in the 2020s. You can still come anytime if you'd like, but the interest of locals is not outwards at the moment.
I live in a neighborhood with many expats and I sensed in 2022 the foreign nationals seemed to be in a paranoid mood. Before then I would say the international community felt welcome in China. The paranoia could be imaginations run wild.
Well , written, and with layers of issues addressed, as someone / family hoping to relocate there when possible, very hopeful, yet with existing issues and ongoing ones, which nonetheless any country faces, not just China. I also think that a way to welcome more foreigners should include various brackets of foreigners, not everyone has a PhD, not everyone is a star, yet all can contribute to China's growth in relation to other countries..... and connections, as the West used to about 40 years ago with its immigrant population.
And if you look at the status China has had a large number of Expats live in China illegally and China has had a difficult time catching these expats. With such a large number of Expats who unlawful stay in China without the correct documents, do you really think that china will be open to allowing expats easy access to Immigration. it has no befit to China
Im sorry but, but your statement if full of loopholes. why should China welcome expats of low quality who cannot contribute to society in China. At the moment the quality of expats in china are rather low. The view of Chinese people towards expats are Over paid lazy and arrogant in mainland China. SO why would it be in the best interest of the Chinese people to allow easy immigration access to foreigners if they don't contribute to growth in China. Most expats do a shit job teaching and most expats in China who work here are only teachers they don't work in the public sector or have much to contribute.
I have been living in Shanghai between 2011-2014 and then back in 2018. At this moment I'm in Shanghai and Shanghai is not even the shadow what it was. I still remember when i was studying chinese and meet other foreigners in Malones bar, those days seems very far. Quite honest you today Tokyo is more international than Shanghai.
If China set out to enable young teenagers to visit with the sole objective of learning the language this would be an excellent start, a pump primer. Perhaps establish a special language school and provide the incentive of free tuition?
Don't underestimate the importance of the language barrier.
In return, the foreigners could perhaps perform some work for free?
The reality is many expats are leaving China is because the high cost of living in Chinas larger cities such as Shanghai and Beijing Shenzhen and Guangzhou, 2nd tier cities have also seem a decrease in expats due to slow salary growth and lack of opportunities. Unless you're wanting to teach for the rest of your life here in China, there's not a lot of opportunities to work here. Also many Chinese companies have started to limit the number of expats working here and recurited here in China as many overseas educated Chinese are moving back to China and are competing for jobs in China. so there's is less opportunity for expats in China.
I lived in China for three years in the last years of Hu Jintao in power, six months in Macau, returned to Europe for three years and then did another three and a half years in China in early Xi Jinping years, returning to Europe in mid-2015. Haven't been to China since.
I definitely felt freer in virtually every aspect in Hu Jintao times, even though my financial status was better in the second bout in China.
Perhaps because the first time it was Nanning, Guangxi, a nominally autonomous province, whereas the second time it was Guangdong (horrendous criminal Huizhou and stately, impressive Guangzhou), which is under a stronger grip of control by powers that be, anyways.
Or perhaps because the policies shifted with the change in polity.
“the actual implementation of China's policies and the social-cultural environment still have room for improvement to effectively accommodate foreigners… An important criterion for testing local governance is if it does NOT prioritize security and in the process stifle development or international exchanges.” Sounds like, while he’s not willing to go so far as criticizing Xi’s policies, he’s suggesting that they shouldn’t be implemented over-enthusiastically.
“Regrettably, derogatory comments about foreigners can be found in Chinese public discourse” Somewhat ironic coming from a former editor of the Global Times, which pushes such discourse. But I’m glad he’s seen the light.
A note on statistics. While the foreign national population increased from 2010 to 2020 (593,832 in 2010 to 845,697 in 2020), a component to take into account is the Burmese refugee population.
The number of Burmese in China increased from 39,776 in 2010 to 351,248 in 2020 because Burmese refugees sought protection in China due to conflicts in their country. If you take out the increase in Burmese in 2020 compared to 2010, then the foreign national population in 2020 is actually lower than in 2010.
Are you/were you an English teacher in China? There are groups of foreign nationals we should welcome like German car engineers (thousands of them in 2019), financial journalists (a lot more before the WSJ reporters were given the boot), etc. and there are groups not needed in China. At the top of the list of who we don't need are English teachers from the unfriendly countries of US, UK, Australia, and Canada. They tend to have bad education credentials, lazy life habits, and the worst attitudes of any expats. Psychologically many of them don't like themselves because of lack of accomplishments and they transfer the self-disappointment into anger on their host society. English teachers from the US/UK/Australia/Canada should be replaced with thousands of recent graduates from Hong Kong, giving the future generation of Hong Kong the ability to get familiar with the mainland.
As a white skin pig living in south west China. It is boring since my playmates left, and a steady stream of them continue to leave. What can we do here? It’s so easy to step on toes, & even if you haven’t, easy to imagine that you might...
I hope his voice is heard by the “relevant authorities” in China. I read this after having another visa request to enter China blocked. Right now, Andy Boreham -- Andy Boreham! -- is the only New Zealand journalist (if that’s the right word for him) working in China, while the entirety of the Australian and Canadian media remain blocked. And of course the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post remain whittled down to skeleton staff. Things are similarly dismal among academics from all those countries. China is stifling right now. I hope that changes -- for all of our sakes.
This is a joke, right?
China has been systematically creating an increasingly hostile environment for foreigners as a deliberate policy objective for the last 15 years.
From the CCP perspective, a sharp decline in Western elites in China isn't a bug, it's a feature.
China was great 15 years ago.
Still remember as a kid I could go to amazing music festivals and I could easily communicate with my friends back home.
Now the government controls everything and I can barely do business, let alone communicate with family and friends back home even with a VPN.
如果你会说中文，生活挺不错。中国只是变得与外界隔绝，以至于不可能像 “发达国家” 的人那样生活。
My Chinese is truly horrible. Especially now that I haven’t spoke any mandarin for the past 8 years. After 25+ years I still feel like a kid learning!
So we are in agreement? If all foreign internet services are cut off in China, the average westerner won’t engage because to engage they need to cut themselves off completely from their lives, families and support networks.
I’m glad there’s people who speak better Chinese than me but unfortunately they are in the minority and as you can from my experience, if you stop using it you forget it.
It’s like if all Chinese internet services become banned in the Western world, no one would dare to visit because most people can’t speak English and they would be cut off from their family and friends.
Until we can either encourage more people to learn new languages or develop excellent AI translation software we’ll need to ensure that people have access to the digital networks they need to live their lives.
In the 1990’s and early 2000’s China was much more open. Maybe it was important to block the US internet giants then in order to build a localized tech industry, but now that the industry is strong there is no need for these rules. All they do now is cut off the outside world and prevent people from learning more about China.
China has much less interest to be inclusive in the 2020s. You can still come anytime if you'd like, but the interest of locals is not outwards at the moment.
Good to know, thank you.
I live in a neighborhood with many expats and I sensed in 2022 the foreign nationals seemed to be in a paranoid mood. Before then I would say the international community felt welcome in China. The paranoia could be imaginations run wild.
我在中国生活了 20 多年。 这不是偏执狂。受窝囊气因为一切都变得有限和受阻，我们无法过上自己的生活。
Well , written, and with layers of issues addressed, as someone / family hoping to relocate there when possible, very hopeful, yet with existing issues and ongoing ones, which nonetheless any country faces, not just China. I also think that a way to welcome more foreigners should include various brackets of foreigners, not everyone has a PhD, not everyone is a star, yet all can contribute to China's growth in relation to other countries..... and connections, as the West used to about 40 years ago with its immigrant population.
And if you look at the status China has had a large number of Expats live in China illegally and China has had a difficult time catching these expats. With such a large number of Expats who unlawful stay in China without the correct documents, do you really think that china will be open to allowing expats easy access to Immigration. it has no befit to China
Im sorry but, but your statement if full of loopholes. why should China welcome expats of low quality who cannot contribute to society in China. At the moment the quality of expats in china are rather low. The view of Chinese people towards expats are Over paid lazy and arrogant in mainland China. SO why would it be in the best interest of the Chinese people to allow easy immigration access to foreigners if they don't contribute to growth in China. Most expats do a shit job teaching and most expats in China who work here are only teachers they don't work in the public sector or have much to contribute.
After China overcomed Covid-19, we believe more and more foreigners will come back, let's see...
I have been living in Shanghai between 2011-2014 and then back in 2018. At this moment I'm in Shanghai and Shanghai is not even the shadow what it was. I still remember when i was studying chinese and meet other foreigners in Malones bar, those days seems very far. Quite honest you today Tokyo is more international than Shanghai.
If China set out to enable young teenagers to visit with the sole objective of learning the language this would be an excellent start, a pump primer. Perhaps establish a special language school and provide the incentive of free tuition?
Don't underestimate the importance of the language barrier.
In return, the foreigners could perhaps perform some work for free?
The reality is many expats are leaving China is because the high cost of living in Chinas larger cities such as Shanghai and Beijing Shenzhen and Guangzhou, 2nd tier cities have also seem a decrease in expats due to slow salary growth and lack of opportunities. Unless you're wanting to teach for the rest of your life here in China, there's not a lot of opportunities to work here. Also many Chinese companies have started to limit the number of expats working here and recurited here in China as many overseas educated Chinese are moving back to China and are competing for jobs in China. so there's is less opportunity for expats in China.
I lived in China for three years in the last years of Hu Jintao in power, six months in Macau, returned to Europe for three years and then did another three and a half years in China in early Xi Jinping years, returning to Europe in mid-2015. Haven't been to China since.
I definitely felt freer in virtually every aspect in Hu Jintao times, even though my financial status was better in the second bout in China.
Perhaps because the first time it was Nanning, Guangxi, a nominally autonomous province, whereas the second time it was Guangdong (horrendous criminal Huizhou and stately, impressive Guangzhou), which is under a stronger grip of control by powers that be, anyways.
Or perhaps because the policies shifted with the change in polity.
Ah well...
“the actual implementation of China's policies and the social-cultural environment still have room for improvement to effectively accommodate foreigners… An important criterion for testing local governance is if it does NOT prioritize security and in the process stifle development or international exchanges.” Sounds like, while he’s not willing to go so far as criticizing Xi’s policies, he’s suggesting that they shouldn’t be implemented over-enthusiastically.
“Regrettably, derogatory comments about foreigners can be found in Chinese public discourse” Somewhat ironic coming from a former editor of the Global Times, which pushes such discourse. But I’m glad he’s seen the light.
In the UK the government wishes for problems like these!
A note on statistics. While the foreign national population increased from 2010 to 2020 (593,832 in 2010 to 845,697 in 2020), a component to take into account is the Burmese refugee population.
The number of Burmese in China increased from 39,776 in 2010 to 351,248 in 2020 because Burmese refugees sought protection in China due to conflicts in their country. If you take out the increase in Burmese in 2020 compared to 2010, then the foreign national population in 2020 is actually lower than in 2010.
this guy needs to go straight to gulag! long live chairman shit!
Are you/were you an English teacher in China? There are groups of foreign nationals we should welcome like German car engineers (thousands of them in 2019), financial journalists (a lot more before the WSJ reporters were given the boot), etc. and there are groups not needed in China. At the top of the list of who we don't need are English teachers from the unfriendly countries of US, UK, Australia, and Canada. They tend to have bad education credentials, lazy life habits, and the worst attitudes of any expats. Psychologically many of them don't like themselves because of lack of accomplishments and they transfer the self-disappointment into anger on their host society. English teachers from the US/UK/Australia/Canada should be replaced with thousands of recent graduates from Hong Kong, giving the future generation of Hong Kong the ability to get familiar with the mainland.
As a white skin pig living in south west China. It is boring since my playmates left, and a steady stream of them continue to leave. What can we do here? It’s so easy to step on toes, & even if you haven’t, easy to imagine that you might...
I hope his voice is heard by the “relevant authorities” in China. I read this after having another visa request to enter China blocked. Right now, Andy Boreham -- Andy Boreham! -- is the only New Zealand journalist (if that’s the right word for him) working in China, while the entirety of the Australian and Canadian media remain blocked. And of course the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post remain whittled down to skeleton staff. Things are similarly dismal among academics from all those countries. China is stifling right now. I hope that changes -- for all of our sakes.
Foreigners in Thailand have fallen even more than China since 2019, that's for sure. And they're still leaving..