Wasn't Alibaba just broken up? This guy has no idea what he's talking about. He lists no specific examples. He basically just described how western governments work lol
After doing a fine job of explaining the SOE myth, it's disappointing to see Colin Hawes saying stuff like this: "the Communist Party is much weaker than it appears on the surface. They’re engaged in this futile struggle to keep control, and sometimes seem to be losing that struggle with all these corruption cases".
The Communist Party in no way resembles Western command-and-control parties in power.
The CPC's mission is to deliver the 2500-year-old Chinese dream of a dàtóng society by leading them to it through their example and self-sacrifice.
To help make this real, members contribute $1 billion in annual dues and billions of volunteer hours. In an emergency, their lives will be sacrificed first, as they were in Wuhan, where almost all staff deaths were Party members. Same with floods and famines and everything else.
Confucius described a past golden age where “the world was shared by all alike. The worthy and the able were promoted to office and men practiced good faith and lived in affection. Therefore they did not regard as parents only their own parents, or as sons only their own sons” (Chen 2011). Confucius called this utopic past dàtóng [大同] , or “the Great Unity.”
Talks about Alibaba - No mention of Jack Ma disappearing into a black hole.
Talks about Huawei - No mention of Meng Wanzhou being sent to help Iran circumvent sanctions.
Talks State-owned companies - no mention of a state-coordinated coal embargo against Australia.
Concludes that Chinese businesses are just regular businesses, and y'know the stuff they do isn't because of the Chinese Communist Party. They're just regular old companies that just so happen to act as if they have to follow a certain political agenda but a lot of the time its pure coincidence.
Right. I'll read the book but this isn't inspiring confidence.
A lot of good common sense here. It's a very big country with a lot of people involved and necessarily a lot of decentralization in its modes of government. The locals are allowed to swim in the local tide and generate local policies and practices and are rewarded if they succeed (and that's defined as increasing peoples standard of living, not adding to their bank balance). Every organization has individuals with charisma who tend to remember everyone's name, a characteristic exhibited by many successful politicians and they do favours for their mates, who pay up in due course as in the mafia. When one talks of corruption don't imagine for a moment that you can put your finger on it or recognize it when its staring you in the face. Does NIMBYism that rules town planning in the west represent corruption because it looks after the interests of the established landowners and tends to enslave those who have to put up with 'urban containment'? Its the root cause of house price appreciation and homelessness. Is 'negative gearing' a form of corruption?
I gave plenty of examples to support my points about corruption and subversion of the Party in the full talk, so this is just an excerpt of the talk. There's a link to the full talk provided.
No, Alibaba was not just "broken up". It is currently restructuring its businesses into several subsidiaries, but Alibaba will still be the holding company and the ultimate shareholders will be the same as before and it is still a private company. It was done purely for commercial reasons, to unlock more value for the investors. See the section "Restructuring" on page 6 of Alibaba's recent interim report: https://www.alibabagroup.com/en-US/document-1595215205757878272
There's also a much more detailed discussion of Ant Group's failed IPO in my book, showing how it demonstrated competing interests among various government and corporate actors in China, rather than being a simplistic "tech crackdown."
Most of my sources about how corruption works in China in the book are from the Chinese government's own anti-corruption cases and from Chinese experts, in other words, original Chinese sources written in Chinese, not English sources.
So it's best to listen to the full talk, read more widely, and check more carefully before making these types of incorrect assertions.
Well, I am aware of the Donziger/Chevron and Assange/Wikipedia saga, but would consider them more like isolated cases instigated by some vindictive corporate executives and perhaps wayward government officials. Such oranges don’t dilute the ocean of apple juice I’d label as systemic abuse of basic rights by much. In case you forgot, Assange was nailed largely by the Aussie and Swedish authorities, while we’re talking about Silicon Valley and corporate elites (presumably US) here. More apples are certainly very much welcome….
While it is true that the CCP doesn’t have the ability to control every single person or corporation at all times, it can almost certainly, due to inadequate protection of property rights and individual liberties, to direct, coerce or even terminate any personal or business endeavor which is seen to be a threat to its power and influence. That typically happens when the individual become too vocal and “subversive” or when the company becomes big and influential enough, and hence seen to be a serious competitor against the CCP’s desired and perceived monopoly over ideologies, resources and power in the eyes of the power that be. Ain’t that not obvious in the cases of how Ant Finance was effectively dismantled or “nationalized”, how the online education industry was effectively shut down overnight, how the members of Sun Da Wu family were put behind bars and their businesses snatched away from them, and how non-complaint intellectuals, scholars and influencers have been silenced through various coercively and haphazardly exercise of state powers? The author’s ivory-tower dissertation on the subject appears well-researched, sophisticated and even-keeled. Yet, I’d say it is devoid of reality on the ground!
While it is true that Silicon Valley and the 0.01% Corporate elite dosn’t have the ability to control every single person or small corporation at all times, it can almost certainly, due to poorly designed protection of property rights and individual liberties, to direct, coerce or even terminate any personal or business endeavor which is seen to be a threat to its power and influence.
Can Silicon Valley and the 0.01% Corporate elites put you behind bars without due process or take away your assets at their whims? Please don’t mix apples and oranges!
Well, I am aware of the Donziger/Chevron and Assange/Wikipedia saga, but would consider them more like isolated cases instigated by some vindictive corporate executives and perhaps wayward government officials. Such oranges don’t dilute the ocean of apple juice I’d label as systemic abuse of basic rights by much. In case you forgot, Assange was nailed largely by the Aussie and Swedish authorities, while we’re talking about Silicon Valley and corporate elites (presumably US) here. More apples are certainly very much welcome….
Interesting article, the CPC system sounds almost like the permanent state that actually runs the USA, all the guanxi and corruption as motivators fits to a T.
Wasn't Alibaba just broken up? This guy has no idea what he's talking about. He lists no specific examples. He basically just described how western governments work lol
Hey, but look at all the China experts who’s work he draws from. You know, all those usual experts without Chinese names...
After doing a fine job of explaining the SOE myth, it's disappointing to see Colin Hawes saying stuff like this: "the Communist Party is much weaker than it appears on the surface. They’re engaged in this futile struggle to keep control, and sometimes seem to be losing that struggle with all these corruption cases".
The Communist Party in no way resembles Western command-and-control parties in power.
The CPC's mission is to deliver the 2500-year-old Chinese dream of a dàtóng society by leading them to it through their example and self-sacrifice.
To help make this real, members contribute $1 billion in annual dues and billions of volunteer hours. In an emergency, their lives will be sacrificed first, as they were in Wuhan, where almost all staff deaths were Party members. Same with floods and famines and everything else.
They're not into power in the sense we are.
This sounds pretty good to me:
Confucius described a past golden age where “the world was shared by all alike. The worthy and the able were promoted to office and men practiced good faith and lived in affection. Therefore they did not regard as parents only their own parents, or as sons only their own sons” (Chen 2011). Confucius called this utopic past dàtóng [大同] , or “the Great Unity.”
Talks about Alibaba - No mention of Jack Ma disappearing into a black hole.
Talks about Huawei - No mention of Meng Wanzhou being sent to help Iran circumvent sanctions.
Talks State-owned companies - no mention of a state-coordinated coal embargo against Australia.
Concludes that Chinese businesses are just regular businesses, and y'know the stuff they do isn't because of the Chinese Communist Party. They're just regular old companies that just so happen to act as if they have to follow a certain political agenda but a lot of the time its pure coincidence.
Right. I'll read the book but this isn't inspiring confidence.
Everything aside, when can we stop doing book covers like that, please be more creative than pandas, dragons, or a yinyang symbol
A lot of good common sense here. It's a very big country with a lot of people involved and necessarily a lot of decentralization in its modes of government. The locals are allowed to swim in the local tide and generate local policies and practices and are rewarded if they succeed (and that's defined as increasing peoples standard of living, not adding to their bank balance). Every organization has individuals with charisma who tend to remember everyone's name, a characteristic exhibited by many successful politicians and they do favours for their mates, who pay up in due course as in the mafia. When one talks of corruption don't imagine for a moment that you can put your finger on it or recognize it when its staring you in the face. Does NIMBYism that rules town planning in the west represent corruption because it looks after the interests of the established landowners and tends to enslave those who have to put up with 'urban containment'? Its the root cause of house price appreciation and homelessness. Is 'negative gearing' a form of corruption?
I gave plenty of examples to support my points about corruption and subversion of the Party in the full talk, so this is just an excerpt of the talk. There's a link to the full talk provided.
No, Alibaba was not just "broken up". It is currently restructuring its businesses into several subsidiaries, but Alibaba will still be the holding company and the ultimate shareholders will be the same as before and it is still a private company. It was done purely for commercial reasons, to unlock more value for the investors. See the section "Restructuring" on page 6 of Alibaba's recent interim report: https://www.alibabagroup.com/en-US/document-1595215205757878272
There's also a much more detailed discussion of Ant Group's failed IPO in my book, showing how it demonstrated competing interests among various government and corporate actors in China, rather than being a simplistic "tech crackdown."
Most of my sources about how corruption works in China in the book are from the Chinese government's own anti-corruption cases and from Chinese experts, in other words, original Chinese sources written in Chinese, not English sources.
So it's best to listen to the full talk, read more widely, and check more carefully before making these types of incorrect assertions.
Well, I am aware of the Donziger/Chevron and Assange/Wikipedia saga, but would consider them more like isolated cases instigated by some vindictive corporate executives and perhaps wayward government officials. Such oranges don’t dilute the ocean of apple juice I’d label as systemic abuse of basic rights by much. In case you forgot, Assange was nailed largely by the Aussie and Swedish authorities, while we’re talking about Silicon Valley and corporate elites (presumably US) here. More apples are certainly very much welcome….
While it is true that the CCP doesn’t have the ability to control every single person or corporation at all times, it can almost certainly, due to inadequate protection of property rights and individual liberties, to direct, coerce or even terminate any personal or business endeavor which is seen to be a threat to its power and influence. That typically happens when the individual become too vocal and “subversive” or when the company becomes big and influential enough, and hence seen to be a serious competitor against the CCP’s desired and perceived monopoly over ideologies, resources and power in the eyes of the power that be. Ain’t that not obvious in the cases of how Ant Finance was effectively dismantled or “nationalized”, how the online education industry was effectively shut down overnight, how the members of Sun Da Wu family were put behind bars and their businesses snatched away from them, and how non-complaint intellectuals, scholars and influencers have been silenced through various coercively and haphazardly exercise of state powers? The author’s ivory-tower dissertation on the subject appears well-researched, sophisticated and even-keeled. Yet, I’d say it is devoid of reality on the ground!
While it is true that Silicon Valley and the 0.01% Corporate elite dosn’t have the ability to control every single person or small corporation at all times, it can almost certainly, due to poorly designed protection of property rights and individual liberties, to direct, coerce or even terminate any personal or business endeavor which is seen to be a threat to its power and influence.
Can Silicon Valley and the 0.01% Corporate elites put you behind bars without due process or take away your assets at their whims? Please don’t mix apples and oranges!
Steven Donziger, Julian Assange, ... lots of oranges diluting your apple juice.
Well, I am aware of the Donziger/Chevron and Assange/Wikipedia saga, but would consider them more like isolated cases instigated by some vindictive corporate executives and perhaps wayward government officials. Such oranges don’t dilute the ocean of apple juice I’d label as systemic abuse of basic rights by much. In case you forgot, Assange was nailed largely by the Aussie and Swedish authorities, while we’re talking about Silicon Valley and corporate elites (presumably US) here. More apples are certainly very much welcome….
Interesting article, the CPC system sounds almost like the permanent state that actually runs the USA, all the guanxi and corruption as motivators fits to a T.
talk about blind spots...